HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
REP. BRANDT IDEN
CHAIR
COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, October 8, 2019
Room 352, House Appropriations, State Capitol
Building
The House Standing Committee on Ways and Means was called to order by Chair Iden.
The Chair requested attendance be called:
Present: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Absent/Excused: None.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt the meeting minutes from October 3, 2019. There being no
objection, the motion prevailed by unanimous consent.
At 10:34 AM, the Chair laid the committee at ease.
At 10:35 AM, the Chair called the committee back to order.
The Chair laid HB 4628 before the committee:
HB 4628
(Rep. Shannon) A bill to amend 1949 PA 300, entitled
"Michigan vehicle code, "by amending section 208 (MCL
257.208), as amended by 2006 PA 565.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-1) to HB 4628. The motion prevailed 10-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Warren moved to adopt substitute (H-3) to HB 4628. The motion prevailed 10-0-
0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Warren moved to report out HB 4628 with recommendation, as substitute (H-3).
The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
The Chair laid HB 4540, HB 4541, HB 4542 and HB 4543 before the committee:
HB 4540
(Rep. Afendoulis)
A bill to amend 1933 PA 167,
entitled "General sales tax act,"(MCL 205.51 to 205.78) by
adding section 2d.
HB 4541
(Rep. Tate)
A bill to amend 1937 PA 94, entitled "Use
tax act,"(MCL 205.91 to 205.111) by adding section 5c.
HB 4542
(Rep. Webber) A bill to amend 1933 PA 167, entitled
"General sales tax act,"(MCL 205.51 to 205.78) by adding
section 2c.
HB 4543
(Rep. Yancey)
A bill to amend 1937 PA 94, entitled "Use
tax act,"(MCL 205.91 to 205.111) by adding section 5b.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-1) to HB 4540. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to report out HB 4540 with recommendation, as substitute (H-1).
The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-1) to HB 4541. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly offered the following amendments to HB 4541 (H-1):
1. Amend page 3, line 27, after "(ii)" by striking out "or (iii):" and inserting a comma and
"(iii), or (iv):"
2. Amend page 4, following line 18, by inserting:
"(iv) A person is not a marketplace facilitator with respect to the sale of
telecommunications services as described in section 3a.".
Representative Lilly moved to adopt the amendments to HB 4541 (H-1). The motion prevailed
11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Warren moved to report House Bill No. 4541 as amended, as substitute (H-2).
The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-1) to HB 4542. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly offered the following amendment to HB 4542 (H-1):
1. Amend page 2, following line 16, by inserting:
"(6) Notwithstanding anything else in this section, a seller that makes no sales at retail
is not required to obtain a license under this act or file returns. A seller that makes both
sales at retail and sales for purposes of resale shall obtain a license under this act, file
required returns, and remit tax as required by this act." and renumbering the remaining
subsection.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt the amendments to HB 4542 (H-1). The motion prevailed
11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to report House Bill No. 4542 as amended, as substitute (H-2). The
motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-1) to HB 4543. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly offered the following amendment to HB 4543 (H-1):
1. Amend page 2, following line 18, by inserting:
"(6) Notwithstanding anything else in this section, a seller that only makes sales for
purposes of resale is not required to register for the tax imposed by this act. A seller that
makes both sales that it is required to collect and remit tax on under this act and sales for
purposes of resale shall register under this act, file required returns, and remit tax as
required by this act." and renumbering the remaining subsection.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt the amendment to HB 4543 (H-1). The motion prevailed
11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Warren moved to report House Bill No. 4543 as amended, as substitute (H-2).
The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
The following people submitted a card in support of HB 4540, HB 4541, HB 4542 and HB 4543,
but did not wish to speak:
Brandon Betz, representing the Michigan League for Public Policy.
The following people submitted a card in support of HB 4541, but did not wish to speak:
Connor Spalding, representing the Michigan Restaurants and Lodging Association.
The Chair laid HB 4959, HB 4960 and HB 4961 before the committee:
HB 4959
(Rep. Hauck)
A bill to amend 1998 PA 58, entitled
"Michigan liquor control code of 1998,"by amending section
601 (MCL 436.1601).
HB 4960
(Rep. Warren)
A bill to amend 1998 PA 58, entitled
"Michigan liquor control code of 1998,"by amending section
107 (MCL 436.1107), as amended by 2001 PA 223.
HB 4961
(Rep. Griffin)
A bill to amend 1998 PA 58, entitled
"Michigan liquor control code of 1998,"(MCL 436.1101 to
436.2303) by adding section 608.
Representative Hauck moved to adopt substitute (H-1) to HB 4959. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to report out HB 4959 with recommendation, as substitute (H-1).
The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Warren moved to report out HB 4960 with recommendation. The motion
prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Griffin moved to adopt substitute (H-3) to HB 4961. The motion prevailed 11-0-
0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Griffin moved to adopt substitute (H-4) to HB 4961. The motion prevailed 11-0-
0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Wentworth moved to report out HB 4961 with recommendation, as substitute (H-
4). The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Brett Visner, representing Michigan Beer and Wine Wholesalers Association, testified in support
of HB 4959, HB 4960 and HB 4961.
The following people submitted a card in opposition to HB 4960 and HB 4961, but did not wish
to speak:
Shelly Stahl, representing the Anheuser Busch.
Shelly Stahl, representing the Wine Institute.
The Chair laid HB 4516 and HB 4517 before the committee:
HB 4516
(Rep. LaFave)
A bill to amend 1976 PA 220, entitled
"Persons with disabilities civil rights act,"(MCL 37.1101 to
37.1607) by adding section 102a.
HB 4517
(Rep. VanWoerkom)
A bill to amend 1956 PA 62, entitled
"An act to authorize the director of the department of state
police to promulgate a uniform traffic code; to authorize a
city, township, or village to adopt the uniform traffic code by
reference without publication in full; and to prescribe
criminal penalties and civil sanctions for violation of the
code,"by amending section 1 (MCL 257.951), as amended by
2006 PA 297.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-1) to HB 4516. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Kahle moved to report out HB 4516 with recommendation, as substitute (H-1).
The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-1) to HB 4517. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to report out HB 4517 with recommendation, as substitute (H-1).
The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
The following people submitted a card in support of HB 4516 and HB 4517, but did not wish to
speak:
Lee Gonzales, representing the Michigan Department of Civil Rights.
Sara Grivetti, representing the Disability Network Michigan.
At 10:49 AM, the Chair laid the committee at ease.
At 10:50 AM, the Chair called the committee back to order.
The Chair laid HB 4325 before the committee:
HB 4325
(Rep. Miller)
A bill to amend 1978 PA 368, entitled
"Public health code, "by amending sections 18101, 18107,
18111, and 18115 (MCL 333.18101, 333.18107, 333.18111,
and 333.18115), sections 18101 and 18111 as added by 1988
PA 421, section 18107 as amended by 1989 PA 262, and
section 18115 as amended by 2006 PA 429, and by adding
sections 18106 and 18116.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-3) to HB 4325. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to adopt substitute (H-7) to HB 4325. The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
Representative Lilly moved to report out HB 4325 with recommendation, as substitute (H-7).
The motion prevailed 11-0-0:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. Iden, Lilly, Leutheuser, Griffin, Hauck, Kahle, Wentworth, Warren, Byrd,
Neeley, Hertel.
Nays: None.
Pass: None.
The following people submitted a card with a neutral position on HB 4325, but did not wish to
speak:
Christin Nohner, representing the Michigan State Medical Society.
The following people submitted a card in support of HB 4325, but did not wish to speak:
Amber Somerville, representing Michigan Citizens.
Kathryn Hoover, representing the WCA.
Tamara Parsons, representing LPC's.
April David LPC, CAADC and Shanda Berdan LPC, representing the Mid-Michigan Health
Services.
Stephanie Ash, representing the Michigan Mental Health Counselors Association.
Jason Ash, representing Access to Mental Health.
Anna Van Wyck, representing Play it by Heart Counseling.
Christine Lyon, representing the LPC's of Michigan.
Caroline Hall, LPC.
Wendy R. Szczepanski, LPC.
Laura Hinkley, representing herself.
Rebecca Jones-Henry MA, LPC, OIDP, IMH.
Greg Dudzinski, LPC.
Maria Enriquez, representing the UAW Local 6000.
Anna Klein BSN, RN, representing LPC's.
Thomas Klein LPC, NCC, representing Great Lakes Psych.
Katherine Christensen, representing LPC's.
Mesha Schultz LPC. NCC, representing Private Practice.
Emily Gould Hysell, Student in Mental Health Counseling.
Cameron Hysell, representing Ally.
Lyanna Leibert, LPC.
Todd Leibert, representing the Department of Counseling, Oakland University.
Ann Maneshay MA, LPC, NCC.
Hunter Shay, LPC.
Tim Greimel, representing AFSCME Council 25.
Fatin Dubaybo, representing LPC's and Counseling Students.
Roberto Overton LPC, NCC, representing Intercare Community Health.
Danie Duron LPC, representing LPC's and Mental Health.
Brooke Aggeler MSC, LPC, representing LPC's and Mental Health.
Raeleen Davis LPC, representing Defining You Counseling.
Lyndsay Nuyen LMSW, representing LPC's.
Colin Mandigo, representing LPC's.
Autumn Bell LPC, representing the Michigan Mental Health Counselors Association.
Leia Hawver, representing LPC's.
Shaaree Presley, representing Faith Soars Counseling.
Andrea Abke MA, LLPC, representing LPC's.
Dawn Streeter, representing LLPC's and Concerned Residents.
Shannon Smith, representing LPC's.
Elizabeth Hawver LMSW, CAADC, representing LPC's.
Kathy Hagenian, representing the Michigan Coalition to End Domestic and Sexual Violence.
Jean Doss, representing the Michigan School Counselors Association.
Rebecca Fitton, representing herself.
Damaris Garcia, representing himself.
Christopher Yoo, representing himself.
Kevin Yoo, representing himself.
Anne M Parpas, representing LPC's.
Andrea Logan, representing LLPC's.
Antoinette Mallett LPC, representing the Fountain of Wisdom and Hope LLC.
Lauren Toma, representing LPC's and LLPC's.
Melissa Fuller, representing Bronson Healthcare Group.
Becky Callenter, representing Jackson LPC's.
Carolynn Dougherty MA, LPC, representing herself.
Marina Wyrzykowski, representing the Michigan Department of Health and Human
Services.
Mark Phelps, representing the Samaritan Counseling Center.
Michele Figuereo, representing herself.
Scott VanDyke, representing himself.
Bridgett Nash, representing LPC's.
Adam Nash, representing LPC's.
June Castonguay, representing Spring Forest Counseling.
Cindy Goldman, representing Michigan Mental Health Counselors Association.
Angela Landrum LPC, representing A Brighter Tomorrow Counseling.
Amy Willis, representing herself.
Joe Buysse, representing himself.
Jennifer L. Buysse, representing Mental Health-LPC's.
Mary Rottier, representing the Pawsitive Counseling Center.
Beth Cherin, representing herself.
Salena Phillips Baker, representing Healthy Mind Counselors.
Olivia Dorgan, representing the Pawsitive Counseling Center.
Tonya Davis, representing Healthy Mind Counseling.
Halene Waytes, representing LPC's.
Roman Grant PA-C, representing LPC's.
Josh Smith, representing LPC's.
Katie Sullivan, representing LPC's of Jackson, MI.
Chandra Novak, representing LPC's!
Steven Sulfaro, representing himself.
Bethany Hutchison, representing LPC's.
Deborah Czechowicz MA, LPC, ATR.
Wendy Levine MA, LLPC.
Kelly Maveal, representing LPC's.
Jessica Foksz, representing LPC's.
Terra Chall LPC, representing Professional Counselors and Clients.
Laura Sulfaro, representing the Washtenaw Community Mental Health and LPC's.
Denise Wayters, representing LPC's.
Susan Stendel, representing the DHD #10.
Sue Ellen Pabst, representing herself.
Amanda Estill, representing Transitions Counseling.
Carol Miller LPC, APT, representing the Mid-Michigan Health Park.
Gillian Ogilvie, representing LPC's.
Michael Joy, representing the Michigan Counseling Association.
Sebi Fishtia, representing himself.
brian Highstreet, representing Holland Township.
Carol Berger, representing the Michigan Mental Health Counselors Association.
Victoria Naert MA, LPC, representing Counselors.
Helga Uuksan, representing herself.
Lara Schaible MA, LPC, representing LPC's.
Karen Oberhill LPC, NCC, representing herself.
Kristina Raleigh LPC, representing LPC's.
Andrea Harris, representing herself.
Kelly Henson, representing herself.
Jeanine Madsen, representing herself.
Eric Moor, representing himself.
Heather Cook, representing herself.
Robin Rudnick, representing Reclaiming Futures Counseling.
Lisa Hawley, representing Mental Health Counseling Access.
Danyelle Dobbins LPC, representing the Michigan Department of Corrections.
Andrea Reini, representing herself.
Brenda Mather MA, LLPC, representing Cross Road Counseling Services.
Cheryl Biddinger MS, LPC, representing the At A Cross Road Counseling, PLLC.
Rebecca Vannest PhD, LPC, representing the Michigan Mental Health Counselors
Association.
Mary Beth Meinke MA, representing LLPC's.
Karen Anthony MA, LPC, IECM, representing herself.
LaNeisha J. Murphy LPC, NCC, ACS, representing herself.
Nasreen Paytas MA, LPC, representing Stillwater Professional Counseling.
Melissa Satti, representing the Ann Arbor Counseling Associates.
Dr. Sara Sue Schaeffer, representing The Mentoring Institute.
Christina Felcyn, representing the All Things Possible Wellness Center.
Laura Ecker MA, LPC, representing the Harbor Hospice.
Elizabeth Bolthouse MA, LPC, representing the Harbor Hospice.
Shelly Wiewiora LPC, representing Muskegon Family Counseling.
Heather Notter, representing LPC's.
Lynn Leinhos, representing herself.
Shawn Bultsma, representing himself.
Stephanie Burns PhD, LPC, NCC, representing Western Michigan University.
Daniel Cruitshanks PhD, representing Aquinas College.
Cherie LaLone, representing Community Mental Health.
Paula Copeland LPC, representing Ascension Borgess Hospital.
Teresa Kiser MS, LPC, NCC, representing The Right Door for Hope Recovery and Wellness.
Dr. Donald Amidon, representing Integrated Counseling Connections.
Kelly Ram LLC, LPC, representing Kelly Ram, LLC.
Heather Letton, representing herself.
Dr. Thomas Michalos, representing Wayne State University.
Stephanie Kastely, representing Wayne State University.
Vicki Palmer, representing the Collage Counseling Center.
Teresa Traverso, representing LPC's.
Christina Shoemaker, representing LPC's.
Christine and Bradley Przystas, representing LPC's.
Megan Mclean MA, LPC, UMFT, representing Meaningful Connections Counseling.
Suzanne Meinke MA, LPC, LMFT, CAADE, NCC, representing Meaningful Connections
Counseling.
Diana Charnley, representing herself.
Angela Mott, LPC Intern at Meaningful Connections.
Pam Myslivec, representing herself.
Caleb Noble LPC, NCC, representing the Counseling Center of West Michigan.
Erika VonPoppel, representing LPC's.
Erika Alexander, representing LPC's everywhere in Michigan.
Lydia Gonzales Haddad, representing LPC's.
Rebecca L Verkest, representing LPC's.
Carol Tillotson, representing herself.
Laurie Church, representing LPC's for HB 4325.
The following people submitted a card in opposition to HB 4325, but did not wish to speak:
Justin Fisher, representing the Michigan Psychiatric Society.
There being no further business before the committee, Rep. Brandt Iden adjourned the meeting at
10:58 AM.
Representative Brandt Iden, Chair
Edward Sleeper
Committee Clerk
esleeper@house.mi.gov