HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
REP. JAY DEBOYER
CHAIR
COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
The House Committee on Oversight was called to order by Chair DeBoyer.
The Chair requested attendance to be called:
Present: Reps. DeBoyer, Bierlein, Meerman, Paquette, Carra, Bruck, Rigas, Schriver,
Woolford, Miller, Pohutsky, Conlin, MacDonell, Mentzer, Tsernoglou and Wegela.
Absent: Rep. Jaime Greene.
Excused: None.
Representative Carra moved to adopt the meeting minutes from March 18, 2025. There being no
objection, the motion prevailed with unanimous consent.
Chair DeBoyer offered the following proposed committee rules:
Rule 1.0 — Open Meetings Act / Public Comment
At the discretion of the committee chair, a member of the public may address the
committee regarding business before the committee. The committee may accept written
testimony in lieu of oral testimony.
Rule 2.0 — Confidential Information
Members of the committee and staff may receive access to confidential information
pertaining to matters before the committee.
Such confidential information may include
sensitive, and/or proprietary data, material, or information in any format, tangible or intangible.
Members and staff authorized to access confidential information shall maintain the
confidentiality of that information unless otherwise directed by the Chair. Members and staff
shall not disclose or permit access to any confidential information to any third party, in any
manner whatsoever, except as with the prior authorization by the Chair or Speaker of the House.
Notwithstanding any of the foregoing, the Chair, the Speaker of the House, and the Office of
Legal Counsel are authorized to access all confidential information pertaining to the Committee
and may share and disclose confidential information among themselves, and other specific
designees authorized by the Chair or Speaker of the House.
Rule 3.0 — Issuance of Subpoenas
Tuesday, April 15, 2025
9:00 AM
Room 352, State Capitol
Building
(a) Generally. The Oversight Committee may issue subpoenas in accordance with House
Rule 36. Subcommittees may not issue subpoenas.
(b) Procedure. Subpoenas may issue upon the motion of the Chair or a Subcommittee
Chair and an affirmative vote of a majority of the Committee members. When
moving to issue a subpoena, the movant must provide all of the following to the
Committee:
(1) the reason the information or testimony being sought is necessary to the work
of the Committee or relevant Subcommittee;
(2) any previous efforts made to obtain the information or testimony being sought
without the issuance of a subpoena;
(3) the party to be subpoenaed, including but not limited to any of the following
descriptors:
(a) a specific individual to be subpoenaed;
(b) a records custodian of an entity or state department;
(c) relevant officers, employees, or agents of an entity or state department; or
(d) a specific entity or state department.
(4) a general description of the documents or other things to be produced, if any;
(5) whether the party is to appear for a deposition, Committee or Subcommittee
hearing, or other testimony.
Rule 4.0 — Deposition Authority
(a) Generally. The Chair of the Committee, upon consultation with the Majority Vice
Chair and the Minority Vice Chair of the Committee, may order the taking of depositions, under
oath and pursuant to notice or subpoena. Chairs of Subcommittees may not order the taking of
depositions.
(b) Notices. Notices or subpoenas for the taking of depositions shall specify the date,
time, and place of examination. Depositions may continue from day to day.
(c) Oaths. Depositions shall be taken under oath administered by a member or a person
otherwise authorized to administer oaths.
(d) Consultation. Consultation with the Majority Vice Chair and the Minority Vice Chair
of the Committee means three business day’s notice, and a copy of a proposed deposition notice
or subpoena, as applicable, before any deposition is taken.
(e) Attendance. Witnesses may be accompanied at a deposition by an attorney to advise
them of their rights. No one may be present at depositions except members authorized by the
Chair of the Committee, House staff designated by the Chair of the Committee, an official
reporter, the witness, and the witness’s attorney. Other persons, including government agency
personnel, may not attend.
(f) Who May Question. A deposition shall be conducted by counsel designated by the
Chair of the Committee upon consultation with the Minority Vice Chair. The Chair shall
designate one attorney from the majority’s office of legal counsel and one attorney from the
minority’s office of legal counsel.
(g) Order of Questions. Questions in the deposition shall be propounded in rounds,
alternating between the majority and minority. A single round shall not exceed 60 minutes per
side, unless the counsel conducting the deposition agree to a different length of questioning. In
each round, the counsel from the majority’s office of legal counsel shall ask questions first,
followed by counsel from the minority’s office of legal counsel.
(h) Objections. Any objection made during a deposition must be stated concisely and in a
non- argumentative and non-suggestive manner. The witness may refuse to answer a question
only to preserve a privilege. When the witness has refused to answer a question to preserve a
privilege, counsel may (i) proceed with the deposition, or (ii) either at that time or at a
subsequent time, seek a ruling from the Chair. If the Chair of the Committee overrules any such
objection during the deposition, the witness shall be ordered to answer. If following the
deposition’s recess, the Chair of the Committee overrules any such objection and thereby orders
a witness to answer any question to which a privilege objection was lodged, such ruling shall be
filed with the clerk of the Committee and shall be provided to the members and the witness no
less than three days before the reconvened deposition. A deponent who refuses to answer a
question after being directed by the Chair in writing, or orally during the proceeding as reflected
in the record, may be subject to sanction by the House of Representatives.
(i) Record of Testimony. The Chair of the Committee shall ensure that the testimony is
either transcribed or electronically recorded or both. If a witness’s testimony is transcribed, the
witness or the witness’s counsel shall be afforded an opportunity to review a copy. No later than
five days after the witness has been notified of the opportunity to review the transcript, the
witness may submit suggested changes to the Chair of the Committee. Committee staff may
make any typographical and technical changes. Substantive changes, modifications,
clarifications, or amendments to the deposition transcript submitted by the witness must be
accompanied by a letter signed by the witness requesting the changes and a statement of the
witness’s reasons for each proposed change. Any substantive changes, modifications,
clarifications, or amendments shall be included as an appendix to the transcript conditioned upon
the witness signing the transcript.
(j) Transcription Requirements. The individual administering the oath, if other than a
member, shall certify on the transcript that the witness was duly sworn. The transcriber shall
certify that the transcript is a true record of the testimony, and the transcript shall be filed,
together with any electronic recording, with the clerk of the Committee. The Chair of the
Committee, the Majority Vice Chair and the Minority Vice Chair shall be provided with a copy
of the transcripts of the deposition at the same time.
(k) Release. The Chair of the Committee, the Majority Vice Chair and the Minority Vice
Chair of the Committee shall consult in advance regarding the release of deposition testimony,
transcripts, or recordings, and portions thereof. Following such consultation, the Chair has
discretion to release the testimony, transcripts, or recordings.
(l) Provision of Rules to Witnesses. A witness shall not be required to testify unless the
witness has been provided with a copy of the Committee’s rules.
Rule 5.0 — Witness and Privilege Procedure
(a) Witness Disclosures. Witnesses appearing at a hearing of the Committee or a
subcommittee in a non-governmental capacity shall provide a disclosure of the amount and
source (by agency and program) of each state grant (or subgrant thereof) or contract (or
subcontract thereof), as well as the amount and source of payments or contracts originating from
foreign governments, insofar as they relate to the subject matter of the hearing, received during
the current calendar year or either of the two previous calendar years, by the witness or by an
entity represented by the witness.
(b) Representation by Counsel. When representing a witness or entity before the
Committee or a subcommittee in response to a request or subpoena from the Committee, or in
connection with testimony before the Committee or a subcommittee, counsel for the witness or
entity must promptly submit to the Committee a notice of appearance specifying the following:
(1) counsel’s name, firm or organization, bar membership, and contact information including
email; and (2) each client or entity represented by the counsel in connection with the proceeding.
(c) Privileges. The Chair of the Committee has the authority to rule on assertions of
privilege.
(1) For the Chair to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements,
witnesses or entities must clearly state the specific privilege being asserted and the reason
for the assertion on or before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance, or upon a
demand from the Chair of the Committee that provides for a subsequent due date.
(2) For the Chair to consider an assertion of privilege over a document, on or
before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance, or upon a demand from the Chair
of the Committee that provides for a subsequent due date, the assertion must be set forth
in a privilege log that includes the following information for each document for which a
privilege is asserted:
(a) every privilege asserted;
(b) the type of document;
(c) the general subject matter;
(d) the date, author, addressee, and any other recipients;
(e) the relationship of the author and addressee to each other; and
(f) the basis for the privilege asserted.
(3) The only assertions of executive privilege that the Chair of the Committee will
consider are those made in writing by an executive branch official authorized to assert the
privilege.
(4) The Chair of the Committee may waive or modify any of the requirements of
this rule in order to facilitate cooperation.
The committee discussed the proposed committee rules.
At 9:31 AM, the Chair laid the committee at ease.
At 9:32 AM, the Chair called the committee back to order.
The committee continued to discuss the proposed committee rules.
Representative Bierlein moved to adopt the proposed committee rules. The motion prevailed 9-
2-5:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. DeBoyer, Bierlein, Meerman, Paquette, Carra, Bruck, Rigas, Schriver and
Woolford.
Nays: Reps. Tsernoglou and Wegela.
Pass: Reps. Miller, Pohutsky, Conlin, MacDonell and Mentzer.
Chair DeBoyer moved that the House Oversight Committee authorize the Chair of the committee
to execute a subpoena for the Michigan Department of State.
1. The information being sought is necessary to the work of the Committee because:
a. Election Integrity is of the utmost importance to the functioning of our republican
form of government in the state of Michigan, and the Department of State has
been unacceptably difficult in ensuring transparency regarding how that
department is training local clerks to administer our state’s elections. The House
Oversight Committee exercises a vitally important role in providing legislative
oversight over this function of the Executive branch of government in our state.
The Michigan House of Representatives has the right to know how Secretary of
State Jocelyn Benson is instructing local election officials to conduct the elections
within this state. Secretary Benson’s refusal to provide the House Oversight
Committee with basic training materials provided to local election officials
indicates that the training provided does not comply with the Michigan Election
Law. If the training did comply with the Michigan Election Law, Secretary
Benson would not be withholding the documents from the House Oversight
Committee.
2. Previous efforts made to obtain the information being sought, without the issuance of a
subpoena, are as follows:
a. For a period of four months, Representative Smit sought to obtain records from
the Department of State, regarding training materials provided to local election
officials. The department repeatedly refused to provide the records.
b. On March 11, 2025, Representative Smit appeared before the Oversight
Committee and requested that this Committee subpoena the documents that the
Department of State refused to provide to the House Election Integrity Committee
and to the Michigan House of Representatives.
c. On March 12, 2025, the Oversight Committee Chair sent a letter to the
Department of State requesting a list of documents that the Department of State
had refused to provide to Representative Smit. This letter gave a deadline of
March 22, 2025, for the department’s response.
d. On March 19, 2025, the Department of State responded with a letter stating that
the documents sought were limited to only those persons who “need to know”
what they contain.
e. On April 4, 2025, the Oversight Committee Chair sent another letter to the
Department of State, again requesting the documents. That letter gave a deadline
of April 14, 2025, for the department’s response.
f. The Department of State failed to provide all requested documents by the
deadline of April 14, 2025.
3. The party to be subpoenaed is the Michigan Department of State and/or its relevant
officers, employees, or agents, including Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, and any
records custodian of the Department of State.
4. A general description of the documents or other things to be produced are as follows:
a. The documents and/or information requested by the Oversight Committee Chair
in his letters dated March 12, 2025, and April 4, 2025, which have not yet been
provided by the Department of State.
5. At this time, a subpoena only for the production of records is sought to be issued.
The motion prevailed 9-6-1:
FAVORABLE ROLL CALL
Yeas: Reps. DeBoyer, Bierlein, Meerman, Paquette, Carra, Bruck, Rigas, Schriver and
Woolford.
Nays: Reps. Pohutsky, Conlin, MacDonell, Mentzer, Tsernoglou and Wegela.
Pass: Rep. Miller.
Chair DeBoyer laid a presentation from the Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and
Energy before the committee.
Chief Deputy Director Aaron Keatley, and Legislative Liaison Sydney Hart gave a presentation
on the Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy. Questions and discussion
followed.
There being no further business before the committee, Chair DeBoyer adjourned the meeting at
11:26 AM.
Representative Jay DeBoyer, Chair
Edward Sleeper
Committee Clerk
esleeper@house.mi.gov